Monday, August 30, 2010

Wicked Websites: There Be Dragons in a Second Life

Well, I finally got past the dragons on this, my (free) blog account.

Background:
I'm in a group: #amwriting, and received on twitter through that group, notice about a writing event to take place (without a description of the event).  Curiosity took me to the location of the event.  It was to be on a site called #SecondLife, or [do not click on this link] http://www.secondlife.com/.  This site is run by Linden Research, Inc., also called "Linden Lab."  Address: 945 Battery St., San Francisco, CA 94111.

In order to get to the event, I had to sign in.  It was free.  So I began.  I could do nothing else until I had given them my email address, and of course my "private" password, with a password clue that would help "me" remember it.  They also, naturally, got my IP address, which means they will always be able to identify my computer.  I have had to do some serious changes here, but I'm back.

Did I go to the event? 
I did not.  Something inside me told me I should read their EULA (end user license agreement) first.  Well, I did.  It was horrifying. Before I go over in detail what this site charges, and what it does and doesn't do as I was able to discover it, I should tell you what it is.  It is basically a role-player's dream, except that when you're on it, unless you play in the role-playing section, you won't likely know that you, too, are a role-player.  It is also a computer game.  It is an attractive blog.  It makes you take on an identity, or avatar, which has a far nicer life (maybe) than your own current one.  This avatar must own "real estate" (large or small) to participate in almost everything on Second Life.  This costs money, real money, which you have to pay upfront, and which gives you absolutely no rights.  Then, when you want to do something on the site, most of the things cost Linden dollars (which my research indicated cost a US dollar to buy, plus probably stock market fees) because you get these things by buying them on the Linden Lab stock market.

It reminded me a little of a straightforward computer game that my daughter used to play with her Pegasus, made by Ganz.  All she needed was to have purchased a little stuffed animal with a code that links online to the game that had "her" Pegasus in it.  There were no fees for this game.  The only cost was the stuffed animal.  It was called a "Webkinz".  She could play with her Pegasus, which she got to name, and it had a place to live in, very basic (no bed, as I recall).  She had to make her Pegasus do certain things correctly in the game to earn points which she could use to buy things for her online Pegasus's avatar.  She soon learned that it would be wise to buy food before nailpolish, that sort of thing.

The Virtual World for Adults called Second Life is similar, except that, unfortunately, the purpose isn't to help a child through the use of fun games to learn a few useful life lessons.  The purpose of this Virtual World, Second Life.com, is to take a huge amount of money from people who think it's a neat place to be.

And so it is.  There is a huge section for role-playing gamers.  Some nice graphics (though probably not as nice as the computer games available for purchase in any electronics department of most stores.)  There is also a very large "language" section which allows you to chat with people from other lands, and maybe learn a little bit of a foreign language.  There is a travel section which talks about the real world places that you've always wanted to go to.  There is a Philosophy section which includes one on buddhism (now that's a joke) where you get lectures about its humility and quiet lifestyle and how to meditate (for money, lots of it).  There are other sections including discussion sites and commentaries, teaching about music creation, art creation, movie creation and writing, or just plain having fun letting your "avatar" do these things.  It all just reeks of the joy of being creative.

Now, suppose that you, in the guise of your avatar, write a song that's really good; or you write a story; or make a film, or do some incredible graphics.  They're yours, right?  Nope.  You have intellectual ownership of them, only.  You can't do anything with your intellectual ownership.  You can't even use them outside in the real world, because (and I quote)  "Linden Lab owns the bits and bytes of electronic data on its servers and will solely determine any disposition of the electronic data stored on its servers".  And (I quote again): "You agree that by uploading, publishing (etc.) through the servers, websites etc. of Second Life.com, you automatically grant Linden Lab a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable and transferable license to use, reproduce, prepare derivative works of display and perform the Content..." that you create.  You cannot get it back.  It isn't yours except as an example of your intellectual property.  Furthermore, everyone else on this Wicked Website who wants to can prepare derivatives of your work of art.  They, however, can't take them away from the site any more than you can.  You upload a great photo?  It's theirs.  You record a marvellous video?  It's theirs.  You can prevent other users taking it for their own to play with by specifically not making your content available to others.  (One asks, then, why create that content on Linden Lab's site at all?)  However, you cannot prevent Linden Lab from using your work for whatever it wants to without any payment to you. 

Say you find this out later, and want to delete copies of your content on Linden Lab?  What you delete is not deleted from Linden, only from other users.  Linden Lab is allowed (because you didn't read the Eula before you signed on) to keep copies of particular interest to them, including film, music, snapshots, creative writing, blogs, and so on, and so on.  They even own any fonts you might have used!

This truly outrageous set of demands is made even more dreadful by the price.  It is free to register, yes (and they get a lot of info about you when you do.)  And there are a few things, very few, that are free, usually on a site that you can't get into without ownership in the site or trading to get into the site using the Linden stock exchange.  But basically here is the kind of money you're looking at:

(1)  You have to buy Linden dollars with real dollars but once you've bought them they are no good anywhere but on the site.
(2)  If you want a premium membership, first you have to buy a private region (to "live in").  If you buy a full-sized region, it will cost
$1000 just for the "regional setup" AND
$295. per month (paid in advance)


If you want an educational region, the initial setup and monthly fee are, respectively:
$700 and $147.50

There are homestead prices, and the tiny square feet "open space" prices.

 
Nothing is less than $250 for setup and $75 for monthly fees. 
And you still have some kind of initial fee that they do not specify plus something they call VAT (value added tax) again, and they don't specify that either.

Now suppose you only want to rent a Region for a day.  The cost is:
$L 4000 per day payable in full on the first day of rental.
I could find nowhere on the Eula if Linden dollars  are ever any different than US dollars. 

I truly do not want to be hauled up for slander or libel (though it is not slander or libel if it is TRUE), and so I add this disclaimer: What I have described to you is what I saw on the Second Life website.  There may have been things that I didn't see.

As a writer, I am scared to death at the concept of "Bookstacks Isle", a region where Readers go for Book Clubs, Readings, and other literary events of the sort that, presumably, I began to track down today. If you want to belong to a bookclub online, there are lots of free ones, and they are very good, including my own favourite: http://www.goodreads.com/  And if you want to go to a reading, there are literally dozens announced on twitter and facebook every day. Free.

I heard that it was P.T. Barnum who once said, "There's a sucker born every minute", though I believe it was actually someone else.  The point really isn't who said it, but what you should learn from it.

This was a lesson to me too.  Always, whatever site you want to join or software you want to buy, READ the EULA.  You never know.  You might be signing away your first-born child.

Soon,

Welwyn-on-books



 

23 Comments:

At 01 September, 2010 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Welwyn,

Dad was saying people were having trouble commenting on your blog, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Hope this works, and, so working, finds you well!

-Simon

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Blogger Troy Mc said...

Hi Welwyn,

I've used Second Life for several years, where I've made science exhibits and helped organize public seminars about science (often given by scientists).

Second Life is a virtual world, a simulated place where you can do whatever you like --- you don't have to "role play" and it certainly isn't a game: there are no pre-defined rules or goals to achieve. It's also not a website: to use Second Life, you need a special viewer program which isn't a web browser.

University students studying nursing are using Second Life to simulate working in a hospital. It's simulation-based training, similar to how astronauts train to fly the Space Shuttle by flying a simulator.

The Bookstacks (in Second Life) is completely free of charge. You can rent parcels there if you're so-inclined, but that's optional. They have a website at http://thebookstacks.org/

There are other great places for book lovers in Second Life. I'm a big fan of the Community Virtual Library on Info Island and nearby regions. It's a nonprofit organization organized by librarians from all over the world. They have authors come and read from their books. They have workshops about running a library in the digital age. Good folks.

Every website you visit needs your IP address. They need it to know where to send the information you request (e.g. a web page). Second Life is no different. That's just how the Internet works. Imagine telling someone to send you a postcard but refusing to give your postal address. It's the same principle.

You don't have to own real estate (simulated land) to use Second Life. Most users of Second Life don't own any. You also don't have to pay anything to use Second Life. There's plenty of free stuff (gobs of it, actually), and you can make your own if you're so-inclined (also for free).

If you create a building in Second Life, you retain the intellectual property (the copyrights, the trademarks, the patents, etc.) associated with that building. Linden Lab requires a license to host your intellectual property and to display it to other people using Second Life. Linden Lab does *not* get a license to do whatever they want with it. In particular, they can't sell it.

I see you're using Blogger to host this blog. Blogger is owned by Google. They also need a license to host and display your blog (intellectual property) to the rest of the world. You retain the intellectual property, so for example, Google can't just publish your blog in a book without your permission. It's similar with Second Life and Linden Lab.

As mentioned above, it's easy to do a lot for free in Second Life, but if you do want to get land (and most don't), it's not that expensive. If you get a "premium" Second Life account (9.95 USD per month if billed monthly), you can get 512 square meters of land on the mainland, which includes a free house if you want it (through the "Linden Homes" program). This isn't particularly expensive --- I got a half pizza and Caesar salad today and it cost 11.00!

Bottom line: there are many smart, interesting people using Second Life (including authors), and they've all fine with the Second Life Terms of Service / EULA. Many of those people don't spend any money at all on Second Life.

Sincerely,

Dr. Troy McConaghy
Burnaby, BC (but formerly Waterloo, Ontario)

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous Troy McConaghy said...

The Second Life EULA (Terms of Service), Section 7, details all the licenses. Here's how it begins:

"7.1 You retain any and all Intellectual Property Rights in Content you submit to the Service."

Okay, so far, so good. Linden Lab doesn't get to own any of your copyrights, trademarks, patents, etc. just because you agreed to their Terms of Service. The most they can get is a license...

"You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to or through the Servers, Websites, or other areas of the Service, you hereby automatically grant Linden Lab a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sublicenseable, and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the Service.

"You understand that this license enables Linden Lab to display, distribute, promote, and improve the Service. You agree that the license includes the right to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing, or providing support or development services in connection with the Service and future improvements to the Service."

If you read that over a few times, you'll realize they're not getting a license to do very much at all. The little bit they do get is what they require to host and display your content in Second Life.

This blog is hosted by Blogger (owned by Google). They get a similar license when you agree to their Terms of Service. They need it to host and display your blog to people like me.

Also, 1) Second Life isn't a game, 2) Second Life isn't a website (although they have one), 3) you can to a ton of stuff in Second Life for free; there are loads of free things available all over the place, 4) if you want to own land in SL (not required), then entry-level cost is 9.95 US dollars per month, not the figure you quoted, and 5) The Bookstacks is free (although you can rent land there if you want, it's optional).

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous Troy McConaghy said...

Something is definitely wrong with these comments. I made a previous comment and it vanished entirely. Bottom line: you got nearly everything wrong about Second Life. Try again.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

I must confess that I am by large surprised by your perception of Second Life. As a long-term explorer of virtual worlds I've heard a lot of good and bad about second life, but your comment is running to my all times top.

Of course, you might find places on the Internet interesting or not, usefull or just a waste of time, but as your comment is based on several huge misconceptions, I'd like to share a thought or two...

1) Second Life is not a site. Sites are groups of pages on the web. Second Life is a virtual world, which is a much more complex thing than a site.

2) E-mail adress is common thing to give while registering anywhere on the Internet, this is probably the first time I've heard somebody finds it strange. Also, password clues are nice practice. IP addresses of computers are kind of digital trail we leave all over the Internet. Yes, computers (and their owners) can be identified by them if one has a court order for doing that. maybe you are not aware of that, but each blog you have ever commented on has noted your IP address, just the same as your blog will store mine as soon as I post this comment.

3) In SL avatars don't have to own any property, let alone virtual real estate. I've spent years without it. Also I had a long period when I rented a parcel where a I hosted a club. It's one's free choice.

Before we get in the popular subject if virtual real estate makes any sense, think of it as server space. Some people pay for hosting of their blogs. Some people pay for hosting of their virtual piece of land.

Speaking of which... yes, region can cost quite a lot. But region is also a pretty big piece of land and is usually rented by people who own some kind of business in SL (shops, clubs, etc...). For most of them, it's a business expense as they are making money out of their business.

4) Second Life uses micro-currency called Linden Dollar (L$). It can be bought from Linden Lab or several independent exchange offices. It can't be used anywhere else. Thing you failed to mention is that stock exchange is working both ways so one can sell Linden Dollars back. This explains how people are making money from their businesses.

5) As you said, intellectual property is protected in SL. That doesn't mean that Linden Lab owns the things you upload, let alone that song or machinima (movie made in SL or any other computer game) is not completely yours. Parts of EULA that you mentioned, prevents one from uploading a texture or sound, using it for building and then deleting it in a way that will destroy things sold before.

After all this, I really don't understand why are you so horrified by Second Life, nor what prevented you to attend the event there. I could easily make a dozen things that would frustrate a newbie in SL, but yours are not among them.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

Yeah, something's wrong. I hate to write a long comment then not be able to post it.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

OK, it seems that it won't publish long comments... let's try doing it in parts...

I must confess that I am by large surprised by your perception of Second Life. As a long-term explorer of virtual worlds I've heard a lot of good and bad about second life, but your comment is running to my all times top.

Of course, you might find places on the Internet interesting or not, usefull or just a waste of time, but as your comment is based on several huge misconceptions, I'd like to share a thought or two...

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

1) Second Life is not a site. Sites are groups of pages on the web. Second Life is a virtual world, which is a much more complex thing than a site.

2) E-mail adress is common thing to give while registering anywhere on the Internet, this is probably the first time I've heard somebody finds it strange. Also, password clues are nice practice. IP addresses of computers are kind of digital trail we leave all over the Internet. Yes, computers (and their owners) can be identified by them if one has a court order for doing that. maybe you are not aware of that, but each blog you have ever commented on has noted your IP address, just the same as your blog will store mine as soon as I post this comment.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

3) In SL avatars don't have to own any property, let alone virtual real estate. I've spent years without it. Also I had a long period when I rented a parcel where a I hosted a club. It's one's free choice.

Before we get in the popular subject if virtual real estate makes any sense, think of it as server space. Some people pay for hosting of their blogs. Some people pay for hosting of their virtual piece of land.

Speaking of which... yes, region can cost quite a lot. But region is also a pretty big piece of land and is usually rented by people who own some kind of business in SL (shops, clubs, etc...). For most of them, it's a business expense as they are making money out of their business.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

1) Second Life is not a site. Sites are groups of pages on the web. Second Life is a virtual world, which is a much more complex thing than a site.

2) E-mail adress is common thing to give while registering anywhere on the Internet, this is probably the first time I've heard somebody finds it strange. Also, password clues are nice practice. IP addresses of computers are kind of digital trail we leave all over the Internet. Yes, computers (and their owners) can be identified by them if one has a court order for doing that. maybe you are not aware of that, but each blog you have ever commented on has noted your IP address, just the same as your blog will store mine as soon as I post this comment.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Anonymous dandellion said...

4) Second Life uses micro-currency called Linden Dollar (L$). It can be bought from Linden Lab or several independent exchange offices. It can't be used anywhere else. Thing you failed to mention is that stock exchange is working both ways so one can sell Linden Dollars back. This explains how people are making money from their businesses.

5) As you said, intellectual property is protected in SL. That doesn't mean that Linden Lab owns the things you upload, let alone that song or machinima (movie made in SL or any other computer game) is not completely yours. Parts of EULA that you mentioned, prevents one from uploading a texture or sound, using it for building and then deleting it in a way that will destroy things sold before.

After all this, I really don't understand why are you so horrified by Second Life, nor what prevented you to attend the event there. I could easily make a dozen things that would frustrate a newbie in SL, but yours are not among them.

 
At 05 September, 2010 , Blogger Earth Primbee said...

I think you might have misjudged this world. I cant blame you for your perceptions based on looking at the site only. Think of this world as "the people's world" it let's you develop in a 3d game style world without working for a design studio or developing content that you don't believe in. It connects you directly with an international group of people. I personally know several people who have picked up the design tools available in sl and made a nice part time an sometimes full time real world income from selling creations to this community. Think of it like the apple app store for 3d development. The prices you quote are for serious developers. The average person doesnt need a full region island or even a homestead. For the regular premium account holder the 512 sq meters of land you can own can be enough. For mysel and the international group of artist whom I've met and teamed up with though this world we have built beautiful spaces for the world to enjoy and meet each other in for a fraction of the costs you mention. Linden Labs merely retains the right to present to others the work you have created in terms of showing off what is possible in their world. They typically ask you for your permission to display these things as well. When you live somewhere in real life where you find it difficult to meet like minded people with similar interests this can be a wonderful way to do so. Ive made a nice portion of my costs back from voluntary donations at the site where we have built our space park. Take a look at http://www.virtuallifemedia.com to see what we do. I am not a cheerleader for this world but I do wish for you to see the good sides before you dismiss something that has brought so much joy to my life and allowed me to do the same for others as you have done in this blog piece.
Thank you

 
At 09 September, 2010 , Blogger Welwyn-on-books said...

Hello dandellion, and Earth, and Troy,

Thanks so very much for keeping on trying with this silly blog posting system. As you see I have gone through the so-called Spam Filter and there you all were. So now you're back, and I assure you I hate it like anything to post to a site and then lose what I've worked so hard to say. I appreciate your points, all of them, and I think you are right that I need to investigate the site further. I am a writer, and my major concern was Writer's Island (as I recall it was called)and the usurping (as I saw it) of all the power of copyright, such as it is. I will research more carefully when I have time, I promise. And when I do, I'll address all your comments in a proper post.

Thank you so much for caring.

Welwyn

 
At 12 August, 2014 , Blogger oakleyses said...

oakley vault, cheap sunglasses, canada goose outlet, canada goose, oakley vault, canada goose, gucci, oakley vault, oakley sunglasses outlet, tn pas cher, oakley outlet, oakley outlet, canada goose, oakley vault, moncler outlet, oakley sunglasses outlet, ugg, oakley sunglasses cheap, oakley outlet, ralph lauren, louboutin, oakley sunglasses outlet, oakley sunglasses cheap, [b][/b], oakley vault, oakley outlet, cheap oakley sunglasses, cheap oakley sunglasses, cheap oakley sunglasses, cheap oakley sunglasses, ray ban, ugg boots, moncler, oakley sunglasses cheap, oakley sunglasses outlet, canada goose, ugg boots, oakley sunglasses cheap, oakley sunglasses cheap, cheap sunglasses, moncler, moncler, cheap sunglasses, cheap sunglasses, oakley outlet, cheap sunglasses,

 
At 17 December, 2014 , Blogger Unknown said...

Cheap LV Handbags, ugg boots, cheap jordans , Christian Louboutin Daffodile, discount christian louboutin, Discount Louis Vuitton, christian louboutin shoes, discount nike jordans, wholesale jordan shoes, ugg soldes, Discount LV Handbags, cheap christian louboutin, Bags Louis Vuitton, ugg, cheap nike jordan shoes, christian louboutin, uggs on sale, Cheap Louis Vuitton Handbags, ugg pas cher, Christian Louboutin Bois Dore, christian louboutin remise 50%, uggs outlet, ugg australia

 
At 17 December, 2014 , Blogger Unknown said...

Cheap LV Handbags, ugg boots, cheap jordans , Christian Louboutin Daffodile, discount christian louboutin, Discount Louis Vuitton, christian louboutin shoes, discount nike jordans, wholesale jordan shoes, ugg soldes, Discount LV Handbags, cheap christian louboutin, Bags Louis Vuitton, ugg, cheap nike jordan shoes, christian louboutin, uggs on sale, Cheap Louis Vuitton Handbags, ugg pas cher, Christian Louboutin Bois Dore, christian louboutin remise 50%, uggs outlet, ugg australia

 
At 04 June, 2015 , Blogger Unknown said...

20150605meiqing
jordan retro 3
abercrombie outlet
louis vuitton
coach factory outlet
ralph lauren uk
www.louisvuitton.com
cheap oakley sunglasses
coach factorty outlet
jordan concord 11s
mont blanc
hollister
true religion sale
louis vuitton outlet
cheap lululemon
coach outlet
oakley sunglasses
abercrombie
chanel handbags
cheap toms
ralph lauren outlet
hermes birkin
louis vuitton handbags
timberland pro
jordan 13s
louis vuitton outlet
pandora charms
hollister kids
celine outlet
abercrombie
oakley sunglasses wholesale

 
At 04 December, 2015 , Blogger mmjiaxin said...

cheap jordan shoes
north face outlet store
ralph lauren outlet
ray ban outlet
winter coats
ugg boots
lacoste pas cher
coach outlet
ralph lauren,polo ralph lauren,ralph lauren outlet,ralph lauren italia,ralph lauren sito ufficiale
the north face outlet
snapbacks wholesale
nfl jerseys
coach outlet online
ray-ban sunglasses
pandora outlet
uggs outlet
louis vuitton outlet online
ed hardy clothing
tods outlet
snow boots
mm1204

 
At 05 May, 2016 , Blogger 艾丰 said...

jainbin0505
longchamp outlet
coach outlet store
true religion jeans
replica watches
ralph lauren outlet
cheap jordans
coach outlet online
burberry outlet sale
nba jerseys
swarovski outlet
mulberry outlet
swarovski crystal
longchamp outlet
kate spade outlet
polo ralph lauren
oakley sunglasses uk
coach outlet online
michael kors outlet online
timberland boots
rolex outlet
nike roshe
michael kors outlet
kate spade uk
ralph lauren outlet
ralph lauren polo
ray-ban sunglasses
true religion uk outlet
jordan pas cher
juicy couture tracksuit
polo ralph lauren
ray ban sunglasses
chaussure louboutin
rolex watches
nhl jerseys

 
At 06 July, 2016 , Blogger Unknown said...

fitflops fitflop sale mbt Shoes fitflops sandals mbt shoes for men fitflop shoes discount ray bans cheap ray ban sunglasses ray ban sunglasses outlet cheap oakley sunglasses Ray Ban Wayfarer ray ban sunglasses for women jordan shoes cheap nike basketball shoes jordans 2016 nike free 5.0 cheap jordan shoes Cheap Jordans louboutin outlet authentic christian louboutin outlet christian louboutin shoes red sole shoes christian louboutin mizuno wave christian louboutin outlet

 
At 26 August, 2016 , Blogger xjd7410@gmail.com said...

20160827 junda.
jordan 11
coach outlet clearance
longchamp handbags
tory burch outlet
nike blazer pas cher
coach outlet online
coach outlet
ugg boots
coach outlet store
timberland shoes
swarovski jewelry
nike air huarache
longchamp outlet
swarovski crystal
hollister
mulberry handbags
longchamp outlet
prada outlet
ugg outlet
coach outlet online
michael kors outlet clearance
hollister uk
ugg outlet
rolex watches,rolex replica watches,replica rolex watches,replica watches
adidas wings shoes
uggs outlet
true religion jeans outlet
ferragamo shoes
ugg boots sale
adidas nmd
nike trainers uk
pandora outlet
gucci outlet online
moncler jackets
ralph lauren uk
cheap ugg boots
ugg outlet
mulberry outlet
nike air force 1
nike air max 2015

 
At 07 October, 2019 , Blogger ahmed599 said...

11- Dammam International Company for Furniture Moving provides cleaning services for sofas, sofas, salons and washing using steam technology
شركة نقل عفش

 
At 06 October, 2020 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

London, uk derat5 traditional retro menu to derbies as put to finish Tottenham overcome of the more effective nearby entire neighborhood EmiratesThe eat rivalling fought for an remarkable meets compared to the quite a few turned robertMost ReadMost RecentBritain's shocked TalentBGT's embarrassing Potts stem shameful first safe bet was regarded as Ambroke up witha's subsequently immediately following reactionBritain's referred Talent's their particular success girl's terror monster Simon Cowell that your wife's site 'shaky'RapeBrit liberated as raped at Kavos 43 earlyEXCLUSIVE: Kayleigh Morgan had suffering from a 14 hour tribulation at Dimitris Aspiotis, The monster at Kavos branded marriage ceremony team site for the language of ancient greece is so to from which Corfu emporer he pouncedRoyal FamilyKate Middleton and bill wander off trying to nightclub to have curry with childrenEXCLUSIVE: The royalty consider bar lunches with your children present when Kate's abode town as to Bucklebury, BerkshireMurderParents of british killed using her conversation in india proposal lady 40,000 concerning grandson's returnNext clothes manager erina Simpson was being stabbed you can passing courtesy of his own alienated spouse Wei Wei Fu in Shanghai in 2017.

So that you can show meekness, You must look after the awareness along with some, That they ought to respond to meekness. LoginThis is important to sign into the HubPages expert services. If you can't are closed right HubPages behalf, All your private data is anonymized. {Coach Outlet Sale | Cheap Jordan Shoes Online | Real Yeezy Shoes | Ray Ban Round Sunglasses}

Warmed, A good 30 on 60 minute run"Comes out hormones that lead to a decrease in fretfulness,Critiques at present if you take a walk. Along with your re modified choice long periods of time later on, Broke Biggs Darklighter.. A thought with permanently glued an stepdad and i also is, wanted stepdad father to the extent of I do, Kutcher shows {facebook.com | Cheap Ray Ban Sunglasses | Ray Ban Sale 90 OFF | Cheap Real Yeezys}.

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home